Navigating Midlife Transitions: A Candid Conversation with Kerri Devine

Embark on a riveting exploration of midlife transformations with the podcast episode, 'Navigating Midlife Transitions: A Candid Conversation.' Join the vibrant dialogue between host Charlotte and her guest, Kerri, the visionary founder behind 'Hot in Charleston.' This dynamic conversation peels back the layers of midlife complexities, delving into profound discussions about motherhood, the nuances of menopause, and the continual process of adapting to shifting identities.

Kerri generously opens up about her journey, providing an unfiltered and authentic perspective on navigating the diverse stages of life. Within this episode, the spotlight shines on 'Hot in Charleston' as a beacon of support and empowerment, fostering intergenerational connections among women facing life's myriad transitions. Tune in for an enriching conversation that advocates for the strength found in shared experiences and the empowering community cultivated by 'Hot in Charleston.'

For more information on Kerri and Hot in Charleston,
https://kerridevine.com/

https://www.instagram.com/hotincharleston/

Thanks so much for listening!

Connect with me:
Email
charlotte@charlotteedwardscoaching.com
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@charlottepedwards
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@Charlotte Padgett Edwards
Website: https://charlotteedwardscoaching.com 


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Transcript

Charlotte 0:42

Hi, everyone. I'm really excited to have Carrie divine on. She is an award-winning essayist, a mother and founder of. Hot in Charleston. An inner generational community. Of women sharing their stories, struggles and insights on mid-life motherhood and menopause. Carrie is a writer and wields her strong narrative voice in Sage observance to guide women to deeper sense of the complex trajectory of love. Heartache and belonging. At every stage of life. Hi, Carrie. Thanks so much for joining me today. I really appreciate it.

Kerri 1:20

My pleasure. I've been looking forward to this for a while and I'm really excited about the little seeds that you're spreading all around Charleston and the pod cast universe.

Charlotte 1:33

Thanks so much. Well, I, first heard about you. I saw you on social media and then a bunch of my girlfriends. We went to your midlife monologues last fall, which was absolutely fabulous. And I think it's just so wonderful. The the voice that you're putting to what life entails as a midlife woman. and you do it with such grace and a lot of good humor. So I really do appreciate that.

Kerri 2:06

Oh gosh, thank you. Well, I mean, so much happens to us during this phase of life and we've got to, um, you know, talk about it, which is why, uh, I'm delighted to be on the pod with you today.

Charlotte 2:18

So when you first got this idea for midlife monologues, is it, something that kind of just came, came to you or was it a work in progress?

Kerri 2:32

Well, you know, the genesis for mid life monologues really just came to me, but, uh, it was a spur, a very spur of the moment thing, but, um, it all really came out of my work to create this platform, Hot in Charleston, and As you know, because you went to midlife monologues and you heard my essay about what happened to me during perimenopause, when I didn't even know that I was in perimenopause or menopause, um, this is really the culmination of kind of my career and that event that I talked about and then sort of what happened later. So. Just a little bit of background. So I spent my career, you know, in PR and on Wall Street, and I was a speechwriter and marketing executive. And so I spent my career writing scripts for everybody else and spinning them and telling them just what to say and what to do and figuring out like what was that unique kernel of truth or difference that made them special and then helping them promote it. But when it really came to my own life, um, You know, I couldn't respond to the crisis of perimenopause when I had spent, ironically, my career helping everybody else respond to their crises. I did a lot of crisis management. Um, so was new in town in Charleston. I had moved from New York City to Charleston about 10 years ago, and I was chairing an event at my daughter's school and, you know, I was the marketing executive. So I was total type A. With my like clipboard and my spreadsheets and I was gonna like really decorate this event incredibly So I went to the Hobby Lobby. My daughter was with me and I was looking for we had a bingo on ballroom And I was looking for all the things to outfit the girls that like cigarette girls from the forties, and they were going to sell the raffle. Looking for something to put the raffle tickets in. And, you know, it was some lucite box and it, I was, I had been spinning and not being myself for months anyway, really, really, really anxious and high strung. And I, I didn't know what it was. I thought maybe it was the mover in the event. And so a box fell to the ground and I needed like all three of them to do this perfect, you know. Vision that I had and I started hitting myself in the head. I was so upset. I started hitting myself in the head. I gave myself a concussion. Um, and my daughter called my husband said, mom's freaking out. Come get me. And so it was really, that was this kind of like seminal moment. When I realized that all the anxiety and sleeplessness and rage that I was feeling really was something else. A friend said to me, check your levels. And I was like, levels, what are you talking about? And she said, you're probably in menopause. So

Charlotte 5:28

Did that freak you out when she said that?

Kerri 5:31

it just, I didn't even know what menopause was. Nobody had ever talked about it before, you know, we talked about our periods, but we never talked about when

Charlotte 5:39

side of it.

Kerri 5:40

stopped, right? I had always wanted to write for myself instead of for other people because I had written for like former presidents and CEOs and celebrities. And so. That was a moment where I had this epiphany. I fired all my clients, I went back to school for my master's in creative writing, and then after I graduated, two years later, I knew I had written about that story in the Hobby Lobby, and it was part of my thesis, and I knew that I wanted to examine this time of life where all of these changes and ruptures happen, and so that's when I launched Hot in Charleston, Hot in Charleston. Which is a platform on Instagram for women in midlife to talk about midlife, motherhood, menopause, marriage, anything that happens during this huge phase of life where A million things happen, a million types of changes happen to us. And so the first thing, the first event that I hosted was World Menopause Day in 2022 at the Gibbs Museum. And it was at that event when I realized that the storytelling piece of it And that yes, women wanted the medical tips and the resources and well, what's hormone replacement therapy and will the hot flashes go away and all that. But what they really wanted. Um, Charlotte was to talk to each other and to hear stories from other women who were going through what they were going through. They wanted to not feel alone. And so that's where, um, the idea for midlife monologues came from. It's like, what are the monologues? What are the stories of midlife? And how can we share them?

Charlotte 7:21

Yes,

Kerri 7:21

was a long answer, but

Charlotte 7:23

No, no, I think it's great. It's great to hear your story behind it. you just kind of led into it. I was going to ask you, to share that story. And I think that that's, what's so important for women in general, just to have that community and, you know. Everyone talks about women friendships, but then there's also topics that you feel comfortable talking about and then topics that I don't know, I guess, depending on when you grew up and how your family was, that was more taboo that were kind of just brushed under the rug. So I think it's great to give a voice and to have this community platform where women feel comfortable talking about it and talking about it out in the open.

Kerri 8:01

I think the, the fascinating thing that's happening out there. I mean, there's a whole cultural shift, right? Midlife is hot. No 50 is the new 30. Everyone's talking about menopause. If you look on Instagram or the web, social media, traditional media. And there are a lot of people like Dr. Mary Claire Haber, who's. Talking about the medical piece. And of course, that's your background. Um, as a nurse. Um, but the things that happened to us during this period of life, you know, perimenopause is now a common term, but even a few years ago, people hadn't heard it before. I certainly had never heard it before. And it is the time before and around menopause that can begin on average at age 41 and can last up to 10 years or more. I've been in perimenopause since I was around 48 years old and I'm 57. Um, and yes, I'm, I'm fascinated and want to share information about the things that were happening to me during that phase, you know, anxiety and sleeplessness. Um, but I'm also really interested. So that's the physical piece. Then there's the emotional piece, right? And the relational piece. And that's what's really interesting to me are all of these. Ruptures that happened during that time in our relationships or milestones that happened in our lives that. Feel like ruptures and our ruptures. So physically, obviously we can be facing our own illnesses. Um, but emotionally I have so many friends who have recently or are about to face the emptiness. That's probably the biggest rupture. I know this sounds horrible. Maybe we're too obsessed as parents, but I think that was a bigger rupture than losing my dad is when my daughter went away. To college, it just like wrenches you it changes your whole identity and just knocks you to your knees. So the relational things that's what's really fascinating to me.

Charlotte 10:14

And I think it's because it is such a large span of time, and like you said, the emotional aspect of you're dealing with your own emotions of, like you said, the rage and the highs and lows of your hormone imbalance, but then you have the empty nesting, then you have sick relatives, and, also juggling I mean, I have a teenager who is 17 juggling his hormones with my hormones and then dealing with elderly parents and taking care of them. And it just exacerbates it. I think also because you're trying to keep in check your emotions, which are completely all over the place. And, you know, I even laugh, The simplest thing, like you said, the Hobby Lobby, but even for me, it's a thermostat war with my husband. I am a morning person, so I'm up at. So I usually go to bed before him and I will turn the thermostat down. And then he goes to bed a lot later and he turns it up and I'll wake up at two, three o'clock in the morning. And I just want to kill him because I am

Kerri 11:20

So

Charlotte 11:20

dying and sweating and so hot. And. I'm probably taking something that was simple, but I'm in rage at two o'clock in the morning. I you have these, big transitions of your life. And you are not functioning as a rational human being, which can exacerbate, you know, the smallest thing. Right,

Kerri 11:45

Is a lot during this time period, both because, as you were saying, the physical piece, right? It's exacerbated by these hormonal imbalances, and I learned when I went to my doctor, Elaine Eustace with menopause solutions, um, that I was estrogen dominant at that time. And so what that means is I didn't have any progesterone. And that creates a situation where you have incredible, um, anxiety, mood swings, rage. I mean, the eruptions of rage that I would have, I did not even recognize myself. You know, we've all been out there. I think this can give us some more compassion because we've all been, maybe we've been out to dinner and there's a woman who seems like a little bit unhinged and is like screaming out of context to the situation, like at maybe the hostess or the waiter. And you think, Oh my gosh, these Karen moments. I mean, You know, these entitled women who are just going off about something. I really think in a lot of cases that this, there's hormones, you know, at work here because I certainly was acting out of context to my very, you know, traditionally like balanced steady type of person. Um, but yeah, so if that's happening at the same time that you're dealing, like you were saying with these. Changes in identity, you know, like who are we at these moments of transition in our lives? We talked about this the other day I had written an essay called monkey bars when my daughter was turning two and that felt like a really big transition for me, you know changing from when you've got a baby and you just want to hold the baby to your like chest and smell like the baby lotion on their head or their tummy and they're crying, hold them and they're, you know, breathing together and just can't get enough of them. It's like an intoxication, right? And then when you have a toddler and they're so needy and sometimes, you know, the terrible twos and you just kind of want to lose them, you know, like go to a different part of the house. You do. Right. And so like the contrast between this neediness and feeling of like, Boundless love and this feeling of like, what about me? You know, kind of kind of thing. Like, where did I go in all of this? And I think that that happens to you too during these transition times of midlife, right? Like, who are we?

Charlotte 14:34

especially after they grow up and really don't need you anymore, because for the better part of 18 years, you've been, you've been their constant, you've been their sounding board. And now, I mean, your desire for your child is independence, but when they gain their independence, you have to almost. Refind your purpose, and kind of switch that role is there something else I want to do? Is there something that, I hate to say missed out, but is there something that you sacrificed that was a dream or desire of yours to help your kids become these? Independent young individuals, um, and do you need to go back and revisit that? And what does that look like as far as, maybe reinventing yourself in this, transition, which can sometimes seem liberating can sometimes seem exciting, but then sometimes can also be intimidating. And you are looking at what do you have to offer and where would you go from here?

Kerri 15:44

Mm hmm. I think that we all face, you know, these questions at different transition times in our lives. And I use, I think that we think that everyone else has it all together and they don't. And I use the example of Rita Wilson, who's an actress who had a long, you know, career as an actress and And there were times where You may notice her singing now and I think she was being interviewed and somebody said to her, what do you want? And the question just totally took her by surprise. You know, no one had ever asked that before, you know, what do you want? And she sat with it a while and realized I want to write music. I want to be a songwriter. And I think I have a lot to say, she said. And so now that's what she's doing. And she's in her sixties.

Charlotte 16:38

And how remarkable is that to start looking inward to what your true desires are in this, you know, this other phase of your life.

Kerri 16:48

And, um, I think we have a lot of guilt, too, when we turn inward like that to, to turn toward, you know, our own voice and our own needs, because in many cases, we've spent decades, caring for other people, whether it's a spouse or a, um, a child or an aging parent and, and You know, especially if we're in a position to maybe, afford to be able to move in a different direction. We think, who am I to have these desires or to to be, you know, selfish in this way. And I think it can be a real gift of this time of life and of menopause that it does become a time to turn inward and embrace selfishness after, You know, as I said, decades of caring for others. And after decades where your identity has really become clouded or eroded by the roles that you've held for other people. And so kind of figuring out who we are unbound from these other roles, I think is, is a big part of what we're supposed to be doing at this time of life.

Charlotte 18:07

I think so too. I think that, I had shared with you that I feel like our experiences shape us, but then some of them bury us and we have to kind of crawl out or unearth ourselves. And take back these layers of what society's expectations, family expectations, and kind of go back to that real root of who we are and what do we want? Because as simple as that question is, Like Rita Wilson, it can be very hard to answer be like, Oh, you're actually asking me what I want for so long. It hasn't been my needs and my desires. So when someone just asked you that off the cuff, you may stumble and be like, Gosh, I really haven't taken the time to think about what do I truly want?

Kerri 19:02

I think, um, part of the big reason for hot and Charleston existing as a platform is to help facilitate these kind of conversations and to do it between generations so that, um. The generation coming next, you know, doesn't face the same sort of rupture and upheaval that we that we did. Um, certainly, uh, people are talking more about the physical piece. Um, but my hope is that we talked more about the emotional, the identity piece the relational pieces. Um, that was one of the. Sparks behind midlife monologues. We viewed it as, um, an intergenerational showcase on a woman's journey. Um,

Charlotte 19:52

It was so beautifully done. And I love that. That's what your vision is, is to really. Look at the woman's journey or life spanned over different generations and, what the importance is in each decade. But how can you, make it a seamless transition where you don't completely lose yourself in each phase or decade.

Kerri 20:18

I think sometimes it's these little ruptures though that bring us clarity. So I'm not sure if we're, I don't know, this is a big, this is a big question, right?

Charlotte 20:30

Right. It's maybe not even something we can answer. It's just, you know, thought provoking I think a woman's life is so multifaceted with all the different roles, that. We have, and, the simple question of what do you really want? And you can ask yourself in each phase and it's going to change and evolve as, you said these little ruptures hit you and you may have to pivot, but it's definitely, an interesting question, as simple as it is.

Kerri 21:03

I think there are probably some tactics that women can use to, you know, answer these questions. Um, I know that you are a journaler, right? Do you find that that brings you clarity with these kind of questions?

Charlotte 21:15

Oh, definitely. I, I love to get up and write every morning and, the quiet of the morning and stream of consciousness writing. It definitely brings me, clarity for sure. Having that space, no distractions and just writing whatever's on your mind or on your heart. And it can really help, shape and, form your thoughts.

Kerri 21:40

One of the tools that I found that's really helpful is to go back through old journals. And if you save up your journals and you go back through over time, you will notice, at least I did, that the same big themes and dreams are very clear. They really bubble up to the surface when you flip through them over time, even over a decade. Your, what you desire Is kind of hidden there. I think in journaling. I love journaling.

Charlotte 22:15

Oh, I think so too. I actually was looking back, through some, maybe not a decade, but at least five years ago, and I'm like, wow, there is definitely an underlying theme here. You know, some of it may change a little bit, but, um,

Kerri 22:30

Was it the seed of an idea?

Charlotte 22:32

yeah, yes, but I think it's really. It's such a good self reflecting process, and I do think it also helps you see how far you've come, too, and different struggles and different, um, goals and dreams that you have achieved. I think it's, it's, I love journaling. I'm a huge proponent of journaling.

Kerri 22:56

Right. No, you're right. And we can give ourself credit, uh, more credit for what we have accomplished and more grace that we're moving toward, you know, this, this destination that maybe has been, you know, an idea. All along, I don't know. I feel like things emerge in journaling. The other thing that I found, uh, helpful is recently, uh, I took a group of friends and we did a guided meditation, with, an amazing woman, uh, Deborah Kaufman, not from, uh, holy yoga in Charleston. She was amazing. And, um, she gave us this, mantra to say over and over again, I'm going to get it wrong. Noom, Durga. I have to, I have to look it up. Um, but it was basically, what do I want or who am I? What do I want? What do I want for others? And what do I want for myself? And it was the best kind of big question and big moment to do, and we did it last month and in January of a new year, I loved it. And the people who came, um, to my house and we did it here in my home. Loved it, too.

Charlotte 24:25

Mmm, that's such an awesome idea. And to have it to be a group of women, a small, intimate setting, um, where you're you know, visualizing it and having a mantra that can sit with and kind of, what pops up.

Kerri 24:46

Absolutely, because when do we have these quiet contemplative moments in our lives? I mean, I find that, you know, if I want to read, I start looking at, you know, social media, and then I'm scrolling, and then I, you know, maybe I'm having my coffee, but I'm not, you know, sitting quietly and contemplatively. It was fantastic. I think I'm becoming a real proponent of meditation.

Charlotte 25:11

It's fabulous. I've started more probably like a year, year and a half ago where I have detonate designated Like sacred quiet time, and it's been a game changer for me, and I'm really kind of leaning into present over perfection, which is a lifelong struggle. And, realizing that we are so caught up in the busyness of life, you know, that even if it's just 5, 10 minutes, which, you know, We waste that just scrolling, like you said, and whether it's turning your phone off as a designated time at night and having that quiet time or for me, because I'm a morning person, I will get up, um, religiously at 445 five o'clock every day, and I won't even touch my phone and have that time before my house gets up where you can have that quiet space because we get so bombarded with so much clutter and you know, just noise and news and even I hate to say learning because I'm Proponent of lifelong learning, but, you know, the emails and I love to read, but then sometimes you're bombarded because of. All this access that you need just to have time with yourself and your own thoughts so that you can really, you know, touch base with your own creativity.

Kerri 26:46

Is that when you're journaling or are you doing meditation?

Charlotte 26:50

So I do a little bit of both. dedicate a certain amount of time, for meditation. And, that's usually like 10 minutes I'm still practicing it, getting better of, you know, doing it longer. And then, and then I will write.

Kerri 27:06

I have found insight timer to be very helpful or play with insight timer. So for the listeners, um, it's guided meditation. Um, uh, based on you can search by time. So I have five minutes, I have 10 minutes, or I have an hour and you can take a course or you can just do a single. I remember during COVID when I was feeling really, really anxious. Um, You know, we were worried for ourselves and our kids and our kids were in school and their lives were being disrupted, but we were nervous for, yeah, their dreams, but also just their physical safety. Um, and I would do a 30 second meditation every morning around gratitude and it just calmed me so much. Insight timer is incredible.

Charlotte 27:58

It's a great tool for people who are experienced at meditating, but it's definitely such a great tool for people just starting out meditating. Because like you said, you can have different time increments because your brain just, you can't shut it off and you need that guided meditation to kind of help, um, relax you and calm your thoughts.

Kerri 28:20

I'm still a complete beginner and I, I find it to be the best tool for meditation, especially when you're feeling awkward or uncomfortable or at a loss for how to do it.

Charlotte 28:34

For sure.

Kerri 28:36

Yes.

Charlotte 28:38

So what do you see your vision for hot and Charleston? I know that you said, you know, kind of crossing all generations.

Kerri 28:44

Mm hmm.

Charlotte 28:44

want to continue, um, doing midlife monologues? Do you want to have classes or a community based, um, where women can kind of get together? what is your overall vision for hot and Charleston?

Kerri 28:59

Well, um, one of the things that, uh, was really interesting to me is when we launched, um, Hot in Charleston, we did research that showed that, um, women wanted to, 75 percent of the women that we spoke to wanted to hear stories from other women going through what they were going through. So I think that the community aspect of Hot in Charleston is really, really important. And the two events that I did have, um, menopause day. And then midlife monologues all sold out. So I think women are really searching for that. You know, Charleston is an extraordinary city. We have so many cultural events. And literary events and, you know, the museums, the Gibbs Museum, um, and certainly food and tourism. We just had seaweed, but I think that, and of course, there's the college, which is an extraordinary, um, institution locally, but I think that women and people are really looking for connection. You know, we, we live in these very You know, technology, technologically connected times, right? But ironically, you know, the second pandemic really is the pandemic of loneliness. And there's a lot of isolation still in the technology that creates these amazing resources. Like, um, we were talking about inside timer. It also. Prevents us from connecting in a real human way with other people. And so I think that the events, um, are really a pri priority for me because they think people are looking for that. You know, they're looking for the connection. They want, you know, the humanity. They want to hear other people's stories. And I think social media is great for storytelling, but there's nothing like, um, an in person event to leave you feeling just completely. Inspired. Um, and I'm not super, um, religious at all, though. I just went to see Savannah Guthrie, um, speak about her faith journey. And she was really incredible. But I used to attend a church, um, in New York City. And there was, uh, a pastor who I loved. He was one of the great American speakers, Michael Linvall. He's retired now. He's extraordinary. And he's an author. Now he's writing a mystery book. Um, and he used to say at the beginning of his sermon, he would say like, God, please disturb us, you know, and I think that's what we were talking about before. It's like those ruptures. the disturbing of us is kind of good. And sometimes when you go, you know, sometimes I feel like I can't watch, you know, scary movies anymore or read, um, books that are really disturbing because it just like, I'm a mom and it's just too upsetting for me. But I think sometimes, you know, we need to be. Disturbed and shaken and I'm not saying these events are disturbing, but, you know, hearing somebody else's story, it can rock you in the way that this in the Hobby Lobby rocked me, you know, like, realize that other people are there going through the same thing that you are. So definitely community events. Um, Are are on the docket for the for the future. Um, and my goal is to take midlife monologues on the road to other cities. And some work on that now, um, looking for funders and talking to producers and other community groups, um, to see if we can bring, um, some of our local talent here on the road, but then also. Going to different cities where we rely on local artists and local writers to tell their stories too. I think it, I think we would sell out in the other

Charlotte 32:50

That just sounds fabulous because I even know in the Charleston event, you sold out of the first one and created a second one.

Kerri 32:57

we did too on the same night

Charlotte 32:59

in the same night. Was this is fabulous that you did, you know, back to back because the first one sold out and then you sold out the second one.

Kerri 33:07

Did you go to the first or the second?

Charlotte 33:09

I went to the second one.

Kerri 33:11

That one was a little rowdier, right? People were really dancing

Charlotte 33:15

yeah, I thought it was great. I went with, a couple of girlfriends and it was. It was awesome. It really was. And I think that, like you said, the connection and the community aspect is, is so important. I feel like we all get comfortable. And, you know, sometimes in these silos that we've created, There's comfort, you know, and like you said, social media is great, but it has this false sense of community. Um, I shouldn't say that there's still community aspect to social media, but like you said, to truly have that intimate connection with someone, you know, at. I'll use midlife monologues where I laughed, I cried. it was just a beautiful experience. It's totally different than me having it over social media. And I think that during this very important phase of our life where we are going through such huge transitions, it is really important to be, you know, sitting next to Either your friend or a stranger, but still another woman that is going through this phase of life with you and having that, um, that bond.

Kerri 34:31

Absolutely. And I think that, um, the subject matter, it was so varied, right? We had, um. We had Asia May, the Poet Laureate of Charleston, um, they were talking about sort of their transition in life and turning 30, she was turning, they were turning 32, um, my favorite we talked about was Melissa Falconfield, she's a, um, author and teacher at Portugald. And she has a piece called the Snoop Dogg. Um, people can find this video on my website, karydevine. com under midlife monologues. And this was the idea of a mother daughter relationship over time. She talked about her mom and how her mom used to snoop on her when she was younger. And that now, um, she still will come to her house and visit her if she's in her 50s and snooping on her. And, and she realized when she was fighting with her when she was a teenager and she said, What are you looking for, mom? What are you looking for in like the pockets of my backpack and my, you know, bedroom? Drawers and diaries and the mother says, I'm looking for a little peace of mind. And, and nothing got me like that. That was incredible.

Charlotte 35:54

And I think as mothers, that's what you want. You want peace of mind to know that your kids are okay. And, and then. When I listened to that one, the peace of mind hit me, but then it also was the generational context of a mother daughter relationship your relationship with your mother evolves over time and I think that's a really interesting piece when you to be, um, In your midlife because you're caring for your child and then you're also getting ready to care for your, for your mother. Um,

Kerri 36:35

And you're having a role reversal because you yourself used to be the child and now you're the caregiver to a parent. And I'm going through that right now.

Charlotte 36:42

and it's a very dynamic relationship because, they still want to be the mother and, the parent. And then it's just a very interesting, you know, role reversal.

Kerri 36:55

And think of the complexity, as you were saying, all of these different roles and ruptures are happening at the same time. That's why I think that this age is really tricky for us and complex, right? one of my favorite moments in the showcase was a poem by a woman named Catherine Barnett. who's produced a number of poetry collections and she, works, in New York as a professor at. NYU her piece was called Son in August, and it was about dropping her son at college. And having this out of body experience where she had to make her way back to her apartment. All she had to do was, you know, find her car, get in the car. Go through the tunnel, find the awning, find her apartment. She goes in the front door and all these shoes are sitting there. Some of them are his. And she goes into the freezer, I think, to get herself a snack or something. And she's rooting around in the freezer and finds a plastic bag with some bluish frozen matter in it. And it was breast milk that had frozen over 18 years. And, uh, it was just an out of body experience where she talks about, you know, this moment in time of, of your child leaving, leaving you. But what a contrast, right? To have that happen, right? As he has just left. Um, so. I'm glad you loved Midlife Monologues, I was really proud to, produce it, and I'm hoping that, this is just the beginning of sharing these stories from, from midlife, everything from, you know, the emptiness to aging parents to, menopause, hysterectomy, illness, um, and new beginnings, you know, all of the, you know. The great chapters that we're just, um, starting to write and that's why the show ended, um, with that song. Unwritten, you know, that, and I said that I wish that my younger self knew that no matter how many, no matter our age, we always have new chapters to write. Well, you kind of answered my question because my question was going to be if you were to offer a seat of wisdom or insight. To everybody, what would it be? That was very nicely said. Well, I just love what you're doing with your podcast, Charlotte. I love, you know, seeds. I hope that, you know, Hot in Charleston has planted some seeds about midlife. And I'm really, you know, excited about what's going to, what those little seeds are going to produce in, in our community of women in Charleston. Yeah, I think it's wonderful, Carrie. I'm just so glad that I went and that I've met you and I think you're just doing such a A fabulous job for our community, for women, but I know that you're going to go on to do many great things for, women all over. Oh, thank you so much. Well, I appreciate it. And I hope people will check out my Instagram. I'm hot in Charleston for more, um, wit and wisdom from midlife. Thank you for joining me. Thank you. Thank you for having me and thank you for all the seeds you're planting.

Charlotte 40:30

I appreciate you spending this time with me until next time, keep sowing the seeds of love in your life and those around you.