Overcoming Barriers: A Neurology Resident’s Journey with Cerebral Palsy

In this inspiring episode, Charlotte interviews her brother Lucas, a determined Neurology Resident living with cerebral palsy. They discuss his experiences growing up, his journey through medical school, and his current residency. Despite facing myriad challenges due to his condition, Lucas's perseverance, adaptability, and optimistic outlook on life shine through. Join us as we delve into Lucas's extraordinary story of overcoming barriers to achieve his dreams.

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Transcript

Charlotte 0:42

Hi, everyone. Thanks for joining me today. I want to invite you into a conversation that's deeply personal and inspiring. I have the privilege of introducing you to my little brother Lucas. He has navigated life while handling the challenges of cerebral palsy. his story Is far from ordinary, his unique journey from childhood through the rigors of medical school. And now to his current residency, showcases his determination and resilience. He has had to overcome obstacles, broke through social barriers and carved out his path in the field of neurology. Lukey. Thank you so much for joining me.

Lucas 1:22

Yeah, it's my pleasure.

Charlotte 1:24

my challenge is going to be to call you Lucas, but I will do my best. can you just tell us a little bit about your story? Your childhood and how that led you to your career path now.

Lucas 1:37

Sure. Um, so I was born with mild cerebral palsy. And cerebral palsy is this kind of very broad basket that a lot of different conditions get thrown into. And so it looks different for each person. But in my case, I had a stroke in the womb, and it affected the deep motor systems of the left side of my brain. So the right side of my body doesn't move. Um, correctly. all my muscle contractions are very uncoordinated. So I don't have a lot of dexterity with my right hand as compared to my left. And, I have some gate imbalances and, I am a twin. My twin sister and I, um, just turned 28 today.

Charlotte 2:28

Happy birthday.

Lucas 2:29

Thank you so much. So growing up with cerebral palsy was a bit of a challenge. My mom and my dad, um, had never had. Children, my mom had never had children at all and my dad had never had a child with a physical disability before and they approached it in very different ways. my mom was very proactive, very, Intent on helping me develop the life skills that I needed to function as an adult independently and my dad wanted the same thing for me, but he was always very, uh, squirrelly about it. He was always afraid that I was going to hurt myself or that I was uncomfortable. Um, so he would try to do things for me that a normal child should do by themselves, like putting on their tennis shoes, um, scooting the chair out to sit down to dinner and things like that. So I started seeing therapists at a very young age to try and develop some of the motor skills, um, that my peers were developing, but really, there's only so much that occupational therapy can do.

Charlotte 3:40

what's your earliest memory of, I might be a little bit different than Annie?

Lucas 3:47

Oh, yeah. Um. I, I think probably in kindergarten would probably be my earliest memories of that kind of thing. I, a lot of it was more based around the fact that I was wearing an AFO, an ankle foot orthotic, that Helps me with, foot drop on my right foot. And I was always having to put that on, before going outside to play. And I noticed that Annie didn't have that. Um, so that was kind of my first like, huh, I wonder what this is. Um, kind of thing

Charlotte 4:21

Do you remember ever having a conversation with your mom or dad?

Lucas 4:26

I did. Yeah. Uh, so it was, it was with mom. I remember at a very young age, I must've been like six or seven was when I started learning about what cerebral palsy is because, Mom felt that it would give me a degree of empowerment to be able to explain to kids in a simplistic way. You know, kids are not malicious. They just notice something and are curious. So they would see my a FO or see the way my hand moves and they'd be like, you know, why are you doing that? And, having that conversation gave me the, the skills to say, this is why. Um, so I would say six or seven was when I started explaining what CP is.

Charlotte 5:07

how did you describe it back then?

Lucas 5:10

Um, I would always just tell them that, they're. Was something happened before I was born that caused my brain to develop differently. and that's why my arm and leg are the way they are.

Charlotte 5:26

That's actually quite mature for a six or seven year old to to be able to, explain that at such a young age.

Lucas 5:33

Yes, and I think it was very helpful. I think it was really, honestly, more helpful for my self confidence than, you know, kids aren't, they're gonna hear me start talking and, and zone out, but, um, it was very empowering to be able to explain it.

Charlotte 5:47

And do you think most people were, I mean, kids at that age are like, Oh, that's cool. And then just go about whatever else they're doing.

Lucas 5:54

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. kids were, I, I never got, like, I'd get picked on occasionally, um, but, It was never, you know, outright malicious.

Charlotte 6:09

Well, that's good to know, especially at that young age, because you just, you can never know with kids. And as a, as a mother, you know, myself, I mean, I think that's your biggest fear, for your children when they, are struggling that. they may be picked on, in school.

Lucas 6:26

Yeah. and it's so much worse when you're a child and you get picked on for something and you can't vocalize what the problem is that they're talking about, it amplifies it. So being able to say, Oh, I know exactly what's wrong with me. Like, I know exactly why my arm and leg are the way they are.

Charlotte 6:45

Well, kudos to your mom. having the forethought to say, we're going to, you know, take this head on that it will make you feel better about yourself. Then kids at lunchtime, won't be like, Oh, what's going on with Lukey? Or, and you can just kind of go right at it and make you feel better about yourself.

Lucas 7:03

Right. Because if I didn't act, if I didn't act weird about it, they wouldn't act weird about it. Um,

Charlotte 7:09

Right. So, how was school for you, I guess? I mean, you're. You're very bright and, did you enjoy school?

Lucas 7:19

I did enjoy school. I think I had a lot of, um, a lot of insecurity about myself, and I compensated because my mom had instilled in me this, uh, attitude of you can do whatever you want to do as long as, you just figure out, you just need to figure out how to do it. Um, and. So, I had this outward facade of anything anybody, any of my classmates can do, I can do, too. I did things like, I tried out for basketball, I played golf, I played paintball, I played airsoft, um, with all the guys. And, I did all these things and figured out how to do them. Um, video games, too. But I always felt this kind of inward, Kind of shame knowing that I was different from everybody else in, in the way that I functioned, um, and it weighed on me a lot. And so I developed very severe depression around 12 or 13 years old. Um, I remember I, I don't remember this particularly, but mom told me about it. Really into creative writing when I was younger, and I wrote a story that she was very disturbed by. She, she didn't tell me the particulars of it recently, but it, it was related to my cerebral palsy and being depressed and having Obviously, so low self esteem and low self worth. Um, so she took me to the pediatrician and he, after he read the story, he said, um, your son has to be on an on a medication. This is a huge, huge red flag. Um, and my mom was scared at first because things like Prozac have a black box warning for, um, young kids and increasing suicidality. And so my mom was like, well, what am I supposed to do? I mean, it's catch 22 of my son is severely depressed and the medication we used to treat that could make it worse. Um, but she, you know, eventually realized and talking with the doctor that the medication would likely decrease the risk of anything bad happening. Um, so I got started on that and things started to get better. But, um, Throughout school, I've always had this kind of outward attitude of I can do anything anybody else can do. Um, and it can be sometimes hard to see through that facade, like, especially for a parent who's kind of watching their kid run around and do their thing. Um.

Charlotte 10:07

Well, cause you're holding a lot of it in too. I mean, obviously you use your writing to express yourself, but, do you recall having any, conversations with your mom saying that you are sad or that you don't like that you're not like the other kids at school? I

Lucas 10:28

I did. It took a while to get to that point because I was very much the kind of person who would shut down. Uh, so I would shut down for days at a time and come home and go straight to my room and not talk. Um, and eventually my mom sat me down and said, we're going to talk. We're going to talk now. Um, so we did and I kind of opened up about about the things that I was feeling, um, despite what I was showing everybody else.

Charlotte 10:57

I distinctly remember a memory of, just say little league that you couldn't play, I shouldn't say you couldn't. Um, it was difficult you, for you to play regular little league. And then I think if I recall that dad signed you up for. Like Miracle League, but then you were not necessarily, um, gosh, I'm trying to figure out how to say this. Um, severe cerebral palsy for Miracle League. And so you were kind of like in this in between and it kind of made you feel worse. is that right?

Lucas 11:32

I did. That's exactly right. So, I didn't have a severe enough medically physical disability to really fit in in Miracle League, and I didn't feel comfortable in, you know, normal Little League. And so I felt like I was in this weird in between limbo. So the, one of the ways that I got around that kind of feeling was one dad got me into golf, which I really enjoyed for the time that I did it. Um, once I went into high school, I. Uh, started playing rugby, which was very, uh, it was very frightening at first, but it made me feel strong to jump into a sport like that. Um, and then after that I found fencing because fencing only requires, um, that you have good dexterity with one side of your body. So fencing was kind of where I squarely landed in terms of my Athletic sport of choice.

Charlotte 12:42

And you did that for a while.

Lucas 12:44

I did. I fenced for about seven or eight years and then medical school happened. So, yeah,

Charlotte 12:51

So leading on to, medical school. Did you always know at a young age that you might want to get into the medical profession?

Lucas 13:00

so actually, when I was younger, when I was really young, we have a lot of military and law in our family and on my mom's side of the family. My grandfather was, in the military and he was career military for his entire life and dad was a lawyer. And, my mom's brother is, was a lawyer. Um, yeah. And so I always thought that I would either be military or law, but. And up until I was about 13, I thought military, um, because I was fascinated by the, kind of the, TV shows that I saw and movies that I watched. and then I was very quickly realized that physically I was not going to be able to do that. I remember this is actually a story about dad. Mom told me this one time, it was before I had figured out what I wanted to do with my life, I was only in 8th grade, so it's not like I needed to, but mom remembers dad bursting into the room. And saying, Leanne, we have to start a business. And my mom was like, what are you talking about? And then she, and he was like, we have to have something for Lukey to do, because I don't know what he's going to do with his life. So we have to have something for him to take over for him to have so that he will be able to take care of himself because he didn't have a good understanding of my, of my physicality and disability. but Later on down the line, toward when I got to be 14, 15, I developed a really severe, um, wrist injury called King Bach's disease. It's the, there's a bone in the middle of your wrist that under severe pressure from flexion. From cerebral palsy. So bending of the wrist, um, cuts off blood supply and the bone dies. So I had to have that bone and several others removed. I had to start getting Botox injections to relieve some of the contractions. And my interactions with both my hand surgeon when I was 16 and my pediatric neurologist, Dr. Layman, um, were kind of my first exposures to medicine. Before that, I had started taking AP psychology, so I was thinking about being a psychologist, um, but after seeing the neurologist a few times and looking up things about the brain and, um, my interests weren't really movement disorder, dystonia related, but, um, that was when I was starting to think about neurology.

Charlotte 15:36

Throughout high school, as you're kind of getting into, college and what your next direction was, is that what made the turning point of I think I'm, I think I'm going to do this. I think I'm going to go on the path to go to med school.

Lucas 15:54

Yeah, and in high school, we, had to do a thesis before we could graduate, and I decided to do A thesis at and I worked with 1 of the neurologists and 1 of the pulmonologist there and that was when I was that's what really sealed the deal. Um, for I, I want to go to medical school. And probably neurology and then

Charlotte 16:17

Was it a specific experience or a conversation that you had or, just being around the doctors during your project or your thesis?

Lucas 16:28

just being around the doctors. and at first, my interests were more research oriented. Um, but just being around the doctors really, it was just a feel at the time because I had no idea. I had no concept for what neurology was. I just saw these doctors talking about interesting stuff that fascinated me. Um, and then it wasn't until I got to college and started taking, some, neuroscience courses and clinical psychology, other stuff, that I realized that. Okay. I actually do like this.

Charlotte 17:05

Do you think it fascinates you even more because then you are understanding? Your brain more and how your brain has, compensated from the stroke, in utero, so as you're learning, about your history and how that could be beneficial to you. Then down the road how beneficial that would be for your future patients.

Lucas 17:28

Absolutely. So one of, and one of the things that I started looking up the most when. I realized I was interested in medicine was through cerebral palsy and, all the different presentations and, and interventions and part of it was, oh, you know, what kinds of things could I, could I possibly look into from my own treatment? And, um, and then it became like, oh, this would be really cool to see the effects of this kind of thing in other patients. Um, and. When I got to medical school, I found that I also have a general fascination with medicine and not just the brain. Um, so that was a happy coincidence. Um, and just, I ended up falling in love with all of it to the point where I considered internal medicine over neurology, but I ended up going with neuro.

Charlotte 18:22

When you went to med school did you have any limitations with your cerebral palsy, palsy as far as some of the basic things that you have to do? Did you have

Lucas 18:33

I did. Yeah, I did. I had to, so one of the biggest challenges in med school was the anatomy lab. And dissection. I walked in the first day, and I was very nervous, and I had already, my M. O. for my entire life has always been to, um, notify authority figures ahead of time to remove that. Um, source of anxiety, so I had already told the, the lab director about my condition and she was extremely supportive. Um, but the 1st day, I was very nervous and I walked in and I started to sweat profusely and like, get dizzy. And everybody thought it was because I was seeing cadavers for the 1st time, but it wasn't. It was because I had to use both of my hands and I was so scared of messing up. Um, but then I learned that there are a lot of different ways to compensate for. your inability to grasp things with your fingers in your right hand. You just have to get creative. Um, So that was a challenge and a bit of a hurdle. And then equally challenging was going into my third and fourth years, the clinical years, when you start to interact with attendings and patient care settings and some old school attendings. Are maybe not as understanding as some of the newer generation. and I remember having to advocate for myself a lot when it came to things like surgery. I had some absolutely incredible attendings who I had. Very frank conversations with and I'm like, okay, here are my limitations. Here are things that I'm not willing to do because of the implications for patient safety and here are the things that I could potentially work around and learn how to do. And for the most part, they were very accommodating. Um, so it ended up being a positive experience overall.

Charlotte 20:29

how did you overcome the ones that weren't

Lucas 20:33

Yes. So I remember there was one particular instance where I. Okay. Was on and I was, it was just me and an attending over at our ancillary satellite hospital and we had an emergency C section at, like, 2 a. m. and he was like, all right, let's go scrub in and he was very kind helped me scrub in. helped me get my right hand into those awful tight gloves. I mean, those gloves are skin tight, and when you have fingers that are just twisted up all the time, and like normal gloves, I can slide in and out of just fine. These are terrible. So the way that we got around it was he, he just looked up at me, and he just like, He's like, I have an idea and he opens up the glove and he goes, just shove your whole fist in there. Like what? He's like, yeah, just shove the whole fist in. Don't worry about the fingers. Just put the fist in there. And I did. And then he took my gown and tied the gown around my little stump. Uh, and then he put another glove over that. And he was like. Hooray, you're sterile. Um, so I got to experience that c section and be a part of it and, and help in, without having to have, you know,

Charlotte 21:57

Compromised

Lucas 21:58

compromise.

Charlotte 22:00

this sterility, but that was still good. I mean, I, I guess I wouldn't think of that as so much of a negative experience because at

Lucas 22:09

Oh, no.

Charlotte 22:10

was still kind and showed you grace and was trying to help you versus I think it would be so much more difficult if he was a jerk and was like, why are you in medical school if you can't do. The things that we need you to do, you know, so I see that being anxiety provoking for you being like, Oh my gosh, how am I going to do this? But at least he was, kind and trying to be helpful versus, I mean, you and I are both in the medical profession. We've both seen all types of people that there literally could be a jerk being like, maybe you should reconsider your career if you can't do X, Y, and Z.

Lucas 22:54

yes. So I, I have had that kind of interaction before and it's usually with older individuals and people like that have actually become, and I, and I won't say it's, that's not fair to, to other People in generations ahead of us who have adapted very well, but people who are rude now are rude in a, in a more tactful way and. A lot of what they are saying is you kind of have to read between the lines, and respond appropriately. I've had people before ask me, you know, can you keep up? Can, can you do your work? Can you get things done on time? um, are you able to even do your, do the duties of a medical student was one of the phrases that was said to me one time and I said, well, yeah. Um, I'm certainly going to try, um, and I wouldn't be here if I didn't intend to try. Be,

Charlotte 23:51

for you,

Lucas 23:53

I got, I got really sassy with, and I won't say sassy, I got, one time somebody asked me, you know, why, What are your limitations and can you keep up? And it was in a very, very kind of condescending, almost reprimanding tone. Um, and I said, I said, you know what, uh, I've made it this far. I think this was like my third or fourth year of medical school. I said, I've made it this far. I think, I think that I've done a pretty good job of adapting and I am. very upfront and very forward about my disability so that people who don't want to interact me because, with me because of it, don't have to. Um, and just got real quiet. Um, I got an email from them later that was not, not like entirely Outwardly backtracking their words, but was very clearly trying to smooth things over. So a lot of, a lot of ways that people are rude are, are tactful rudeness. Um, you just kind of have to dodge the passive aggressiveness.

Charlotte 25:07

well, as your big sister, I'm so proud of you for sticking up for yourself because I think it could be just such a challenge. And I've, always admired the path that you've chosen, um, knowing that it wouldn't be easy and you would have people that would be questioning your abilities. And, the fact that you learned at such a young age to advocate for yourself. What's probably crucial in the biggest life lesson that you had. That is taking you the furthest

Lucas 25:43

Definitely I think the best thing that could have happened was for me to learn at, as soon as I was able to understand what the words meant. Learning how to explain in a simple way what I have or what I deal with because it teaches you at a very young age to start advocating for yourself and then your arguments and your rebuttals can become a little more sophisticated as you get older, but if you don't learn how to articulate what's going on until you're in your teenage years or even in your twenties, you're kind of Starting on the back foot, um, and learning how to advocate for yourself in a world that doesn't really have a, a lot of accommodations for, for people with disabilities.

Charlotte 26:36

or even compassion. I mean, I think we're getting better, but I would have to say, um, Oh, I guess that's kind of a large generalization, but I do, I do find that, um, there's plenty of compassion to go around unless it is making someone change the way that they do things or altering their lifestyle, then there may be more resistance.

Lucas 27:07

And I will say of, of all professions, I could have chosen. I mean, I didn't go into any other profession. So it. It might be just speculation, but I think that I have encountered some of the most positive experiences of my life in in medicine. Um, and I think it's because there's a higher a higher propensity for compassion and in the medical field. Um, people are situations where I expected to go in and kind of get, um, maybe a little more skepticism. From people, we're just not that way. I, I mean, I've just had some truly amazing mentors and co residents and, fellow medical students who just treated me like I was just like everybody else. And even at times, we're curious because they're medically minded and would ask all sorts of questions, which, which I love, because I love talking about brain stuff.

Charlotte 28:07

And what a blessing, because going from a childhood where you were kind of like the in between of not necessarily knowing where you fit in to finding a profession that. It's also welcoming you

Lucas 28:21

oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And my coworkers and people that I've gone through this whole medical school thing with have honestly been some of my biggest advocates. Um, before I, I've, we had this one lecture come in and talk about. Um, cerebral palsy, and he said some very uncomplimentary things about people with CP to a room full of medical students who knew exactly what I had, and I could feel the anger just like simmering in the room because everybody knew, um, that I had this and all of them supported me, whether or not I had interacted with them for more than five minutes.

Charlotte 29:04

Did you say anything?

Lucas 29:06

Um, I, I didn't say anything during the lecture, but I remember the course, uh, leader walked up to me afterwards and said, Hey, Lucas, how do you feel about that? And I said, yeah, you know, it's, I think it's just, it's, I chalk it up to ignorance and that's, and then I move on with my life. And she said, do you mind if I take care of this? And I said, no, of course I don't mind. And she said, great. Um, and, uh, I got an apology from him like a week later. Um. So

Charlotte 29:37

what's really scary. I don't mean to interrupt you, but so you have. This professional, was it a doctor or was

Lucas 29:44

It was a physician. Yeah.

Charlotte 29:46

it is coming to give a lecture to all future doctors. So you're in a lecture hall. I can imagine that's probably quite a big, big group.

Lucas 29:57

Oh, it was, yeah, it was about a hundred of us.

Charlotte 29:59

Yeah. And so you are already painting a picture to all of these future doctors about what CP or Cerebral Palsy is and like shame on you because if they had not had an experience with you. Being, you know, the fantastic individual that you are, but let's pretend that you were not in their class. So they're unaware besides this person giving a lecture and it's disheartening to me that. He's painting such a negative picture for all these future doctors of how to treat and deal with people with CP.

Lucas 30:41

yes. It's, it's very unfortunate. It's, it's unfortunate and, um, you know, people, people are impressionable. So I, you know, part of me worries about. Personalities like that and what happens when, you know, somebody like that stands up in front of a bunch of impressionable young medical students who haven't yet established their, their, um, career personality. But 1 thing that this. Particular experience demonstrated for me is that for every one person, there's at least for every one person who will say these things about somebody. There are a hundred that will, that will advocate for them. and. It was, it ended up being more of a positive experience for me than a negative one because it showed me just how many people are, are supportive, as opposed to this one misguided fellow.

Charlotte 31:38

Well, that's great. I mean, you know, like you said, going from a space where you didn't know exactly where you were to here you are in a lecture hall of everyone supporting you your journey your story and the good that you're trying to do in the world. that's fantastic.

Lucas 31:56

Absolutely. Yeah, I, I've, I've landed right where, right where I needed to be for sure.

Charlotte 32:03

So moving forward, you graduated med school and now you're doing your residency in Cincinnati, for neurology.

Lucas 32:13

Correct.

Charlotte 32:14

how was it going there and meeting up with your group of residents or your class of residents, I guess you would say, when you first were introduced to them and getting into the neurology program there?

Lucas 32:26

Oh, it's been wonderful. I truly, I think one of the things about residency and trying to like, apply to residency programs is trying to find, a personality match. That, because not every program has the same feeling, the same kind of approach to how, how the residency functions. And I think I just, I hit the jackpot with where I am now. I've made a lot of. Really amazing friends and I've met some wonderful people, to the point now where, you know, I see them as close friends now. in the short time that we started working together, I haven't had any negative experiences, although it would be, I don't know if I would talk about them given they're my current employer, but, uh, but I've, I've, I've just. Yeah. I'm blessed to be where I am now. I'm learning so much and in such a wonderful group.

Charlotte 33:28

How do you feel your patients are towards you they can have preconceived notions as well, or have they all been very receptive to you?

Lucas 33:35

Oh, they've been incredibly receptive for the most part. Um, sometimes I'll get the occasional insensitive comment usually from a population who maybe doesn't have a lot of frontal lobe, uh, inhibition because of their, whatever pathology they have going on to begin with. But Um A lot of times I get comments that are misguided, so the comments where they'll see my hand or see that I type, so I type with one hand, and they'll still make a comment like, Oh, what's wrong with your other hand? And like, Oh, you type so fast with one hand. That's so impressive and they'll and then I'll, you know, I'll say something while also trying to move the appointment along because I have four other patients that I need to see and. They'll make a comment, like, oh, that's so amazing that you're doing this in spite of, of, your limitations. And I, while I understand the intent behind that statement, I am trying to do my job and it can be hard to, it can be, uh, it can be difficult to field that comment 12 times in one day. Because it's like this constant like Reminder of yes, I know I, I'm aware. I, yes, I know that I type with one hand. Um, the intention there is, is positive, but it gets a little exhausting at times.

Charlotte 35:19

I would imagine so.

Lucas 35:21

but in general, I, I haven't had any, you know, people who have been just outright cruel about it.

Charlotte 35:30

So if you were to look back to your 12 year old self that was worried shameful and had to go on Prozac because, of your depression, of where you'd be and who you were and how you would fit in, and And see how far you've come in this wonderful life that you've created for yourself in this wonderful career. Can you just even go back there and be like, wow, look what all I have accomplished.

Lucas 36:05

Yes. So I sit down and I look back at it and it's. It's scary to think about because sometimes I think about what awful thing would have happened if I had not been started on something for my mood. And I think about how the, really the best thing that I could have done for myself was continuing to try these new things that. I don't know, I, I, when I was a kid, I would try, I would go paintballing with all the other guys, I'd go play airsoft, I'd go to the beach, I'd get in the water, even though that I wasn't the strongest swimmer, which in hindsight was probably not the safest decision, but. I, I kept doing all of the things that I wanted to do, despite the fact that I couldn't do them exactly like everybody else. If I wanted to play video games with my friends, I learned how to play with one hand, um, instead of just resigning myself to, Oh, I can't do that. Um, I think things would have turned out a lot different in my life if I hadn't developed early on the attitude of, I want to do it, so I'm going to try.

Charlotte 37:13

I just think it's wonderful. I mean, obviously, I've gotten a front review of your life, but just your attitude, and I think that that's what's so remarkable, and how important that is for other people to hear, because regardless whether it's cerebral palsy anxiety depression or whatever. Any other type of disability or limitation that you may have, um, a lot of it can come down to mindset too. It's not going to take away, your disability, but training your mind to compensate or to figure out a way to compensate so that you can, have a fulfilling life.

Lucas 37:58

Right. And I think if there's one thing that I would, I would say that all parents need to have understand is that kids are capable of understanding way more than you think they can. And so you should start having that conversation of this is what's important. Bye. Going on with your body as early as possible, because the earlier they understand the more time they have to, um, kind of build an identity where they can advocate for themselves and not just, oh, you know, you were born different or you were made different, but as, as simple technical explanation as, as you can muster of, This, this is what happened to your brain specifically, or this, you know, if, if, if somebody has a congenital heart abnormality, this is what's happened with your heart. It really helps build a sense of identity. Yeah. Yeah.

Charlotte 39:07

Oh, definitely. I still think you got to do a pediatric neurology You would be so good for so many kids. Um, but that's my Pete's heart coming in, but, you will land exactly where you're supposed to be. but I do think, have you ever even thought of going back, and talking to med students or, just sharing your story with other people so that they can see. And not be like the lecturer that you had and say, the world's your oyster. You're capable of doing different things as long as you put your mind to it and figure out a way that works best for you.

Lucas 39:48

Yeah. I think if there's like an audience for that kind of thing, then yes, because I don't know. I've always been the kind of person that doesn't talk about. themselves too much and less asked specifically. So I've never, I've never like sought that out because I've never wanted to, I don't know, impose my, my story where it's not, where it's not wanted or, or, um,

Charlotte 40:13

Have you ever had any family friends ask you to talk to anyone?

Lucas 40:18

Yeah, one time I was asked to talk to the parents of a young girl, I think she was seven or eight, and they had always told her that she, that she, that God had made her special, and they had never actually had a conversation with her about what cerebral palsy is. She had a very similar physical profile to me, and that her cognition was largely fine, and When I met them, they were, like, shocked that I was in college, even, and just very out of touch with what, with the capabilities of somebody who has a disability, um, and I remember talking to them and saying to them, you have to have a conversation with her about what's actually happening in, in her head and what's happening with her body, because she is probably, you know, Eating away at side trying to understand what's going on. Um, people who have a disability or who have been quote unquote born different. I think we'll always have, um, kind of this sadness that they have to, that they have to go through at some point in their life, or maybe even in phases in their life. It's like they're mourning something that they never had, which is difficult for somebody who has full control over their body and their brain to understand at times.

Charlotte 41:40

mean like morning, different experiences of that

Lucas 41:44

Mourning experiences. Yeah. Mourning the idea that they can't do things the way that other people can do them, or just that they're not like everybody else, and can't, um, you know, fit in in the immediate way that they want to

Charlotte 42:01

do you remember that? Did you get mad? Did you get sad?

Lucas 42:03

All the time.

Charlotte 42:05

All the time.

Lucas 42:05

All the time I

Charlotte 42:06

it relational to school? To sports? Was it when you started having girlfriends or just, you know, high school, middle school kind of era?

Lucas 42:15

Yeah, a lot of it. So academics and stuff was always kind of my area and my kind of safe place. So it was more towards social, experiences and, things like sports and other activities and then and then dating. Oh, man. Dating was a whole other thing too. Um, yeah. With in terms of self worth and grappling with that. Um, but it's, it's waves. Um, as soon as, as soon as you come to terms with something in regards to your life, the way it is now, something else gets introduced. Like, when I was young, I was like, Oh, yeah, I mean, I can run around. I can play video games with one hand. I can do this and that. And then you start dating and then you're like, Oh, boy. Um, what, what's a potential partner going to, um, Going to see me as what, how are they going to view this? Um, and then once you get over that part, you, you know, go to medical school and you, and you start to think about, Oh boy, I can never be a surgeon. Like that is just physically impossible. Not that I want to, but still it's that repeated process of, you know, I have to allow myself to be sad about the things that I can't. That I can't do.

Charlotte 43:29

Do you have something like an outlet for that? Or you just let yourself be in that space for a little bit and get all your emotions out? Or like when you say you allow yourself to be sad, is it?

Lucas 43:45

Yes,

Charlotte 43:45

stay in that moment. Or do you write anymore? Is that an outlet to

Lucas 43:49

I do. I do still write. creative writing is an outlet for me. and then so is honestly. I, I get a lot of, I get a lot of enjoyment out of, social activity now, despite my anxieties as a kid. mainly my outlet is, it would be creative writing or, any kind of creative endeavor. Um, and it used to be, it used to be fencing, but I don't have so much time for that anymore. But

Charlotte 44:22

so do you just know that, okay, you're in a moment and you need to work through these emotions, but since you have gone through so many different seasons of your life, dealing with this, do you try to kind of talk yourself up being like. I know there's a light at the end of the tunnel. I have figured out different ways to still keep moving forward.

Lucas 44:47

yes, I'm, I am always, and this is something that I learned growing up too. I am always able to identify it now. When I was a kid, I, I couldn't, and that was part of what kind of plummeted me into depression was I couldn't identify that what I was feeling was, was okay for me to feel and that I would probably feel it on multiple phases of my life. But now, when I have that feeling, I'm like, oh, I'm yeah, I'm sad that I can't, be a surgeon and that kind of scenario. I, I kind of sit down and I kind of have a little conversation with myself. Like, do I really want to do that? Or, or am I just sad that I don't have the option? And usually it's, it's, yes, it's because I'm sad that I don't have the option, not because it's something that I really wanted to do with my life.

Charlotte 45:38

And that's an interesting perspective because like, even if you took football, not everybody wants to play football, you know, you could say, sad that you don't have the option

Lucas 45:47

Yes, that, that is

Charlotte 45:48

team sports wasn't an option for you

Lucas 45:51

It was, it was, I had, I didn't realize until later on in my life that I had no interest in basketball. But at the time I was sad that it was, it wasn't not an option. I could have learned, but I was, I was sad that I didn't have the option to pick it up with the ease that the other kids did. Um, And then rugby is kind of my ill fated adventure that I did just, just because I wanted to prove to myself and mom and to dad chagrin that, um, that I could do it. Um, and it was one of those things where I was like trying to defy that like sadness of, Oh, I can't do this. Yes, I can. And then I went and did it. And I was like, two years later, I was like, I can't do this anymore. I should never have done this.

Charlotte 46:39

think it was probably a good mental and emotional exercise for you to kind of test, test yourself, test your limitations, which. I mean, everybody also has to test their limitations, but putting yourself forward and, I also admire you for now recognizing. Your emotions, because I think we all have things that have happened to us, things, traumas, emotions, and a lot of people just, push them off to the side or bury them down and, don't want to face them. And so the fact that you've been able to say, I have to grieve this moment, that it's not exactly the way I want to, that a way that I want it, or that you're pissed off that these options. We're essentially taken away from you the day that you were born, but then you've able to change your mindset and kind of compensate to do something different.

Lucas 47:39

Right? Um. And just in general, I think, I think learning to confront your emotions, um, earlier rather than later is, is to everyone's benefit and, um, regardless of what you have going on in your life, because pushing things to the side, um, there's only so much space to the side and eventually it'll all just come flooding down towards the middle again. Um, so dealing with them as they come is a lot healthier.

Charlotte 48:10

Oh, definitely. Definitely.. well, I think you're super special and I am, um, just so proud and so amazed at all you have accomplished thus far in your life. And I cannot wait to see where it all takes you.

Lucas 48:27

Well, thank you so much. I've, I've, I enjoyed doing this. I, I, I don't get to talk about. all of this a lot. Um, so it's, it was, it was fun for me.

Charlotte 48:39

I hope you enjoy the rest of your birthday and I really appreciate you spending a little bit of time with me today. And,, I can't wait to see where it all takes you.

Lucas 48:49

Well, thank you so much.

Charlotte 48:51

Appreciate it. I appreciate you spending this time with me until next time, keep sowing the seeds of love in your life and those around you.